Recently I was lucky to be able to interview Stefan Chmelik, founder of BioSelf Technology and inventor of the Pebble and get a real insight in to how the milennia old use of sound for wellbeing has been miniaturised and made available just at the time when anxiety seems to be at an all time high.

In the interview we discuss the genesis of the Sensate Pebble, the intent behind the use of sound and vibration to improve wellbeing, as well as feedback from current users on how the device has benefited them.

We also explore other devices and technologies such as Heartmath, biofeedback and neurofeedback. Additionally we talk about their current production status, when the device will be in stock rather than preorder, and what’s in the product roadmap for Sensate in 2021 and beyond. Stefan Chmelik is a life-long meditator, renowned integrated healthcare physician and wellbeing technology visionary. As founder of New Medicine Group in London’s famous Harley Street, he created a world-class team with 300 years of combined clinical excellence. Through his work there with thousands of patients, he identified both the need and the solution to the problem of modern life stress, which led to the formation of BioSelf Technology in 2015. And if you are looking to buy a Sensate Pebble, then please check out the special Indiegogo discount link http://bit.ly/hatsoncoach for a massive discount off the RRP.

Transcription of Interview

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, device, vagus nerve, technology, breathing, frequencies, fantastic, improve, stress, programme, benefits, anxiety, research, case, indiegogo, meditation, years, work, sound, heart

SPEAKERS

Matt Hatson, Stefan Chmelik

 

Matt Hatson  00:00

Okay, recording. Okay, that’s great. Stefan, welcome. Thank you for taking the time to come and talk about your device Sensate Pebble. And it’s great to have you,

 

Stefan Chmelik  00:13

Matt, thank you so much. You’re incredibly welcome.

 

Matt Hatson  00:16

That’s great stuff. So let’s start. I’d love to know a bit of the story behind your background and how you’ve got to the point where you, you’re releasing this device out for people to buy.

 

Stefan Chmelik  00:28

Yeah, I mean, it’s, I mean, it really is a lifelong journey, actually. And the company by self technology that I’m not completely involved in hindsight, a terrible thing is not I can see that much of my life. And career has effectively been leading to this point. I mean, going right back in the dad taught me and my brother to meditate when we were very young under five. So I really am a lifelong meditator and that’s very much informed. Not only My personal development but my clinical work and my entrepreneurial work over over several decades. So for the last 30 years, I have been fully immersed in clinical activity with patients that new medicine group in Harley Street London, where we were the UK is main integrated health care team. And we were particularly interested in exploring ways to try and help people with chronic hard to diagnose or hard to treat problems, problems, which, in mainstream biomedical medicine didn’t always have a lot of answers for and what’s interesting but tragic as well is that in many ways, these make up the majority of the chronic health issues that people suffer from today. And so there seem to be this huge gap really, and identifying these kind of autoimmune these inflammatory these stress mediated responses. So I became particularly obsessed and fascinated about this given my background as well. And really looked deeply into how we could try and train people to learn classical breathing classical meditation techniques to enable stress resilience to enable people to overcome things like stress, anxiety, chronic pain, insomnia, etc. And that was great. And I’ve used those tools with thousands of people’s people over the years. But what really, the turning point really was a 10 foot 1012 years ago when I really started to notice that people’s ability to follow classical meditation and breathing techniques was really declining quite rapidly. To the point where I now in a really say, unapologetically that my experience is that most people can’t effectively meditate. You know, from a neurological point of view, people can sit still, to some degree and they can go through the motions of meditating but actually their body and their minds and their their neural system isn’t in what one could describe as a meditation like state. So they’re not really getting the neural benefits that we know. The acres of research tell us is that is is is forthcoming from regular meditators. So for me, then the, the decision was, okay, well do I change what I’m teaching people because I’m not really being of much benefit to them. I’m kind of wasting my time and their money because I’m teaching them techniques that they don’t actually seem to be able to do or follow through with. And my other major interest is technology. I’ve always been fascinated by the use of technology for the betterment of mankind. So I started to look at technology that could assist that process. And we and for years, we used a large piece of clinical equipment, a big sort of kind of chairs and ground zero gravity chair with huge transducers built into it and we got fantastic results from that, but I can’t entry point where I realised that the impact of this in a very clinical technology in an upmarket, Harley Street setting with a relatively small number of patients really wasn’t where I wanted my knowledge accumulated to kind of go. So I started really to look at global impact. And realise that the only way to achieve that was to miniaturise the tech to go digital to include it with an app and to sell it to the consumer market, not in the medical market, where it’d be, again, pretty limited, but in the consumer market where people who self assess and self diagnose with these stress related conditions can pick it up and receive it immediately.

 

Matt Hatson  04:41

Yeah, no, fantastic. So that’s really interesting. At what point was it you started to think about the use of the vibrations accessing sort of the vagus nerve stimulation response as the as the answer to that?

 

Stefan Chmelik  04:59

Yeah, well In over a 10 year period, really so the pattern that we filed for the sensor devices back was from 2015. But as I say, we’ve been I’ve been experimenting with the use of sound, particularly low frequency sound for a number of years in the clinic, and with a much larger device, the kind of eureka moment really was when I was sitting on the tech and I realised that we could miniature and turn the body into the hardware, thus getting rid of most of the handling of 99% of the hardware. So by using by turning the transducer from the back to the front, and and using bone conduction, therefore effectively turning the thoracic cavity of the chest into a resonating cell, we could get rid of, you know, virtually all the hardware and have the same kind of clinical outcomes. So that was the kind of eureka moment and that that was the the step that enabled us to find a way to make this a scalable device that could be obviously shipped around the world. I think there’s something really, really primal about making our chests vibrate.

 

Matt Hatson  06:06

Yeah, definitely. I think…

 

Stefan Chmelik  06:07

We all know this instinctively. And you know, human beings have been drumming or banging at the moon or arming and chanting and singing and prayer. And using yoga techniques and breathing techniques for thousands of years. We know that we feel good at the end of it. And I think now the science in a way is catching up with what is the mechanism behind that. I mean, there are studies around this many studies of course around breathing and the effects of breathing, but also about arming and chanting. There’s actually quite a lot of information about the power of music, and low frequency music in particular, some of the kind of sacred music guys let bark and Mont aveti wrote quite a low frequency non audible content into their into their music, especially the stuff that was designed to be played through a church organ. There’s kind of this this kind of sense of awe and wonder. This written interview like to a lot of sacred music comes a lot of that comes from the non Audible, low frequency experience.

 

Matt Hatson  07:14

Yeah, that’s really interesting. And that’s my that’s my experience from various things like practice such as to gun and sacred sounds, which was my first real exposure to that. And I guess in in using the sensei it really took me by surprise, actually that there were certain there were certain frequencies that elicited a response I wasn’t expecting. Yeah.

 

Stefan Chmelik  07:42

Yeah, it’s so interesting, isn’t it? And this is the thing it’s beyond words really mean not we’ve had a Vagus nerve for several hundred million years as mammals and primates and right back to before we were mammals, we’ve had a Vagus nerve. We’ve only had a human brain for a much, much shorter period of time. So there’s this this lower brain lizard brain if you like, reptilian brainstem response Yeah. So which you know, the the gut brain connection that we know about that is that mediates all the organs I mean that is essentially a description of the vagus nerve this this this gut this gut brain superhighway is the vagus nerve in many ways. So it’s the it’s these non conscious signals from the lower brain, which mediate the autonomic nervous system. Yeah. So we don’t have to think about heartbeats. We don’t have to think about gut peristalsis, blood vessel dilation, all these things they happen automatically. And that’s for good and for bad. Yeah. So when people get startled or traumatised or the lizard brain is over activated, it becomes hyper vigilant, then it can ramp up those responses in The belief that it’s in some way protecting us from a danger that isn’t, in fact, actually there. And this is, and this essentially is the basis of a lot of the certainly the panic and anxiety symptoms we see, but just so also the pro inflammatory symptoms, which you observed in clinic, you know, because adrenalin is a very pro inflammatory substance service being released on a regular basis, then that’s not good for long term human health.

 

Matt Hatson  09:27

Yeah, no, that’s really interesting. So you’ve had the various incarnations of the device out for a couple of years through the…

 

Stefan Chmelik  09:36

so the original beta testing goes right back to 2016. We had a first device out which sold out very quickly in 2018. And then the the version before the one that’s now available, sold at the early part of this year, and the one that’s being shipped now is the new version. Yeah, so we’ve had about four versions.

 

Matt Hatson  09:59

Yeah, no. That’s fantastic. And you’re constantly looking at how you can improve it. I mean, sure, and what some of the case studies or feedback that you’ve had that really exciting you in terms of what it is you set out to achieve.

 

Stefan Chmelik  10:13

Yeah, and some were driven, and almost entirely by our user feedback. As I say, we was a very conscious choice to not go down the medical device route. We didn’t want to get locked, locked into years of study millions of pounds worth of research prior to making the benefits of the device available to people that need it. So we were, I know very carefully verified to myself and to the team within the clinic that we were getting very significant, reproducible and consistent results on relatively small numbers aren’t in and around about 100 people. So we would use the technology and Then we would test a number of things heart rate variability with spiritual capnography, subjective well being. And we were seeing in virtually all cases in a really, really significant shifts that you wouldn’t expect to see with almost any other intervention. And that’s carried through into the wild. As you know, consumers have been buying it, people have been buying it, they’ve been using it. And just the level of spontaneous feedback we get is kind of what keeps the team going day to day really. And it puts a smile on our faces and really drives us forward. It’s I mean, it’s hard running a startup, right? Yeah. And it’s been pretty hard in the last few months of the as well, although, of course, our product is integral must be designed for what’s been going on over the last year, of course, conditions under which everyone has to work has been very trying. So it’s so our user response is absolutely in our sucker and the thing that keeps us going, we there’s another Which is a number of things which people commonly report as benefits sleeping one of the main benefits that people consistently say is improved. Panic Attack, anxiety, mood. But in a strange and interesting list of symptoms as well which people report have improved, which we haven’t tested. So we can’t really verify but I mean everything from hay fever to some neurological conditions like Parkinson’s, etc. When we’re not in a we’re not in a position of claiming we’re not we don’t claim to treat any conditions. We’re non medical device. We claim to be able to help people relax and improve stress resiliency by giving them a meditation like experience which would otherwise be hard for them to achieve using normal self discipline. Yeah, and there’s plenty of evidence that that has a knock on effect, but yeah, we we love our users, and we get Very high level of consistency backs on them.

 

Matt Hatson  13:04

Yeah, no, that’s fantastic. I mean, my experience. I have asthma though for the most part since you control other than certain periods of the year where I don’t know what they put, what the trees are doing or what their chemicals they put on the fields. And and it was during the first of those kind of in May I tend to suffer more than usual that I was using the pebble and I noticed the impact it was having on my breathing. You know, I to the point where I didn’t need to use my inhaler, you know, that I would normally do during this period where I get a bit Wheezy I and I guess because I’ve had this my whole life. I’m very sensitive to what’s going on with my breathing that I would notice that I could just feel my chest relaxing, you know, tightening my breathing was improving. Which goes the other way. I know the Vagus nervous. The Vagus nerve innovates through lots and lots of walls. So didn’t initially totally surprise me. But the impacts of it was quite significant and I was really interested to sing on Okay, so you know it’s it starts us to think about what it is that’s driving those reactions why I need an inhaler occasionally anyway and that ability just for 20 minutes 20 minutes to calm the breathing down and not need an inhaler is fantastic.

 

Stefan Chmelik  14:29

I mean, it makes complete sense. In theoretically all as we haven’t tested sites benefits are outcomes on allergic or mediated problems, but it doesn’t make complete sense. You know, given that the vagus nerve and the autoimmune system, autonomic nervous system and therefore the autoimmune system are controlling a largely given that the autonomic nervous system is largely affected adversely by stress and For inflammatory hormones, it’s not surprising that somebody’s stress, resilience increases and improves that allergy type symptoms might also improve. So we’ve had anecdotal reports of hay fever, skin, such as x skin, itchy skin conditions such as eczema, etc, improving. And although we’re not a medical device, we will be applying for FDA status. Next year we, they, we expect to receive that. And we are scientists and researchers at heart. So we know we have a whole programme of scientific research and user research which will be commencing from next year.

 

Matt Hatson  15:39

Fantastic and I love that idea of providing something to help people that don’t have the ability to then have the skills and self regulation. You know, which as you say, you’re seeing more and more I mean, I do a lot of work with clients who are coming to me burnt out high levels of stress. And uh, my observation is actually just getting things moving data, the various devices I use, such as heart math and various other techniques, getting them to develop some small skills that you can start to build on is actually the big challenge and and I was talking to, to a programme that was in America that was looking around drug addiction, and the idea of using Vagus nerve stimulation, just to kick start to get them out of that stuck state to give them the space in their nervous system to start to learn to self regulation skills, improving the capacity or the success rate of the programme.

 

Stefan Chmelik  16:47

I would absolutely expect that to be the case. And just to clarify when we were not Vagus, no stimulation, although we have an impact on the vagus nerve and we believe the entire autonomic nervous Have a system we will take we’ve taken quite a different approach to most other tech which is targeted at the vagus nerve. So, all existing tech whether it’s medical or non medical is using electrical stimulation. Yeah. And to one degree or another directly either sitting on or clamping on or being next to the vagus nerve in some shape or form and electrically stimulating that, so kind of like 10s machine technology essentially, which people have been using for a long long time now but targeting one specific nerve branch. We’re using sound Yeah, so the entire sensate ecosystem is sound based. Either the headphone content which of course is oral, but very cleverly designed, but which is orchestrated and synchronised with the non audible portion of the tracks the sessions which are perceived by bone conduction on the chest as the synchronisation of these two audible and non audible sounds that creates experience. And as far as we can see, and we haven’t had any reports, and there’s doesn’t seem to be any legend as to suggest otherwise, there doesn’t really seem to be the capacity to over stimulate the vagus nerve using sound. There definitely is the you can over stimulate the vagus nerve using electrical electrical system. Yeah, electrical stimulation. And then, you know, the potential side effects that we have we haven’t come across and can’t see a basis for there being any adverse effects using sound.

 

Matt Hatson  18:34

Yeah, really interesting. So. So in terms of application for the device, what do you what do you recommend? How often do people should use it? how long they should use it for?

 

Stefan Chmelik  18:47

So so the use case that senseis designed for was 10 minutes once a day. So when I was designing the tech, I originally thought we’d have to use a 20 minute session. And what was essential Was that it achieved three things during a first session, which is that it felt pleasurable immediately that the person conducted in a finished the session that at the end of the session, and upon standing up that they would be able to feel the difference. And that at the end of the first session, it would show subjective and objective change to specific biomarkers. And we achieve that in nearly all cases. But, in fact, we’ve found that that happens within a 10 minute session. So although there are 1020 and 30 minute tracks that come with the device on the app, and we’re writing and composing and we’ll be releasing new tracks all the time, we only ask people to do 10 minutes once a day. It is passive. So we ask people to basically you know, close their eyes light back, put the headphones on, hit go and just enjoy themselves for 10 minutes. So we You know, we don’t ask people to do it well, you know, down the gym or on the phone or whatever. Although Having said that, you know, I’m wearing it now as the inventor, I feel I can kind of break the use case. Yeah. And so all our results and outcomes are really based on that 10 minute, 10 minutes once a day. Lots of people do more than that. You know, the tables have it on the whole time pretty much been a lots of people tell us Oh, yeah, I use it four or five, six times a day. Can I use it too much? is quite a common question. In fact, they the answer to which appears to be no. And I’ve you know, we’ve really tried to use it too much. And not found that we can. So say a 10 minutes once a day as a use case, but many people enjoy it so much and find the benefits are sufficient that they use it significantly more than that.

 

Matt Hatson  20:52

Yeah. My own use case. I use it. I often use it before before bed. I find It’s, you know, particularly if you’ve been really busy that day. It works that way. But I also use it in a couple of ways. One if I’m, I need to sit and focus. I find just you know whether it’s a soundscape I don’t know, but it helps helps me focus when I’m doing creative work or trying to get something done. Yep. I’ve also experimented it when using heart math when using the heart math, biofeedback because my, one of my weaknesses, I’ve been using that for many, many years, is my mind still wanders, you know, and I find that that kind of the heart focus that comes with the book with the heart math practice, having the sensei on is a very gentle way of reminder of pulling me back to where I need to focus for that. And that’s a pretty profound experience using the two I found has been really, really fantastic.

 

Stefan Chmelik  21:51

Yeah, we use the heart man. I love heart math. Bruce Cryer, their ex CEO is one of our advisors. We use taught math as our testing device in the first kind of clinical work we did, and you know, to verify that we were getting the kind of shifts that we were hoping that we would, and it very much verified that that was the case we’re using. And the next clinical trials we’re doing is uses more complicated how heart rate variability technology, but heart math is fantastic. And you know, biofeedback works incredibly well biofeedback and neurofeedback work incredibly well if you do them. And this is this is the thing meditation works incredibly well. If you do it and you do it. Yeah. That’s the sad fact is that a lot of people are downloading meditation apps and they’re kind of forcing themselves to kind of sit through a session or five or 10 minute 15 minute session whatever. Because they know they should. But the the how much actual neurological benefit neural networks should we say building benefit they’re getting from that Time is, I think highly debatable. So that, again, we’ve taken a different approach. So whereas a lot of tech is essentially monitoring and data recording, and I love all of it, you know, I’m very grateful to Fitbit for having made people aware that they can wear something on their wrist in a mass market away of that I’m very grateful to Apple for having increased the quality of the technology, etc. Most of the technology essentially is measuring stuff, and then it measures and then it’s and then it finds something maybe isn’t optimal, and then it nags you to change it. Hmm. And you know, we all know we all know what happens to nagging right? It doesn’t, it doesn’t do anything. So we took very much the the other end of the spectrum. So we said okay, let’s make you feel better noticeably. And then you can look at the data and see how much by sounds is a very, very, it’s passive and as much as we don’t ask you to do anything we don’t ask you to follow And the thing all we ask you to do is close your eyes and enjoy soft for 10 minutes. But the outcomes are very active. And we do that at the end of a session we don’t say okay, great. Now Now go and breathe now go and breathe properly for 10 minutes. Yeah, because you’ve already done that.

 

Matt Hatson  24:19

Yeah, that’s that’s really interesting i think i think there’s there’s really something there about almost using the technology to rebel against everybody being obsessed with too much too much information and feeling bad because they didn’t get that steps in most sometimes you can’t get your steps in Don’t be all and end all of everything.

 

Stefan Chmelik  24:42

I mean, we’re aware of the irony of using technology to combat the problem of too much technology. But this nobody’s gonna throw their phone away. Yeah, I mean, a Pandora’s box is open. You can’t uninvent anything in it. Technology is just too useful when we’re not really trying to appeal to the people who do actually have the willpower and the ability to meditate for a few hours a day and go and live maybe off grid and in a really limit their technology exposure. Now, these people will get the results irrespective because they have that that is built that way. Our interest as a company is in finding ways for the average person normal people at a global level hundreds of millions of people to be able to build stress resiliency, and for very simple reason that you know, there’s many major global problems that the world is facing any one of which could obviously lead to the demise of the human race. And I think unless a tipping point of human beings starts to make better quality decisions that are based on the heart rather than fear, then the the power As the be the corporation’s the political parties will not make the decisions that are necessary to stave off those issues. And I think I think there is a tipping point coming genuinely, I think we are seeing a, a mass of people who want the world to be different. They want their politicians to be making different decisions. And I think the events of this year, the pandemic, obviously have really focused that many things have happened in the last few months, which people have told me for years would be impossible. Yeah, I mean, I’ve been saying we need to stop flying. We need to stop consuming unconsciously in the way that we are. We need to learn and come to terms with our own fears and our own inadequacies. And everyone said this is impossible. Of course, it more or less happened overnight. That is exactly what has been ness. Sorry for people. So let’s just hope that we can, you know, we can learn the lesson from that and use the the impetus of just cause so many people tremendous pain for positive change.

 

Matt Hatson  27:10

Yeah, absolutely. I think that making the most of that, and forced pause, to refer to stop, reflect and say, actually what’s important, rather than everybody 99% of people being on rails doing what they do, because that’s what they do, and never having the opportunity to question it.

 

Stefan Chmelik  27:34

Exactly. And I think this is an opportunity to enforce pause. I like that, and enforce pause. And this is an opportunity to question isn’t that many things that we thought were impossible, like the commute or working in a different way or consuming less or flying less, and we’ve discovered, many of these things are possible. We of course, shouldn’t and we’re not for a moment diminishing the trauma and anguish and pain that’s been experienced by an untold number of people. And, you know, my biggest concern in many ways is the impact of this on a generation of people going forward. I think there was already a massive mental health problem that was being kind of held kind of hidden, held a baby like and I think there’s a tsunami of mental health issues that are going to be arising and showing themselves over the next few years. And I think we have to be prepared for that.

 

Matt Hatson  28:31

Yeah, yeah. I totally agree. And talking about that next that next generation, have you seen Have you looked done any work in terms of sensei with children?

 

Stefan Chmelik  28:43

It’s such an interesting question that a lot, lots of people write to us, and they say, I’ve been using it with my children. We we know we haven’t tested it so we don’t we say we say Dina don’t use we kids. But of course people are gonna take it home by one take that you took the children They’ve reported in a fantastic results from because there is a tremendous and it’s heartbreaking. There’s a tremendous level of anxiety in children going up now. It’s huge. I mean, in children under 10. There’s a lot of anxiety, a lot of insomnia. In older children, teens as there’s, again, an absolute pandemic of depression, anxiety, poor self worth, and associated issues. But we’ve had a parent support to us, I’ve used it with their children with learning difficulties, and they’ve been much karma that they sleep better. I mean, it’s on very much on our roadmap. Since it is the product of course, which were successor products we’re shipping at the moment, obviously, but we have a whole roadmap of other hardware and software products that fit the same, the same need, provide solutions to the same problem, including a sleep focused one but also including a sunset for kids. We think that’s a really important market. There is children have never been so overwhelmed or anxious or put upon or uncertain and parenting and as a parent myself I know how hard it is to deal with that and that again during lockdown that has been incredibly difficult with people, people working from home and homeschooling, the the pressure has been tremendous for so many people. So yeah, so we’re really looking forward to next year hopefully being able to put a children’s based sense that product, make that available for people.

 

Matt Hatson  30:36

That’s fantastic. heartmath has recently released a child focused programme. I don’t generally work with children, but I’ve worked with a few friends children since since lockdown and using the devices and just teaching them some of those, you know, some of those self regulation skills that seems to have got lost over the generations, you know, that just ability to pause To say, hang on a sec, yeah, control how you’re feeling, rather than just react to everything.

 

Stefan Chmelik  31:05

Exactly. And, again, another, something that has happened to some extent, over the last few months is that people have been spending if they’re fortunate enough to be in a place where they can, spending more time in nature. And I think we really can’t overestimate the importance of that for human beings. You know, we need a certain amount of silence and stillness every day, as much as we need food. We need a certain amount of contact with nature every day, to be able to function and survive and to thrive. And I know that’s great you know, I see a lot of people out walking now who you know on a daily basis all our all our we’re very fortunate where we live, we’re surrounded by rivers and forests and hills. And there’s a lot of people out there, you know, with their kids, and it’s wonderful and you know that that is the only viable antidote.

 

Matt Hatson  32:05

Yeah, absolutely get out there, get some fresh air get a bit dirty. And yeah, I mean, that’s one of the the real pluses for me personally, through this period is just being able to finish work and say, all the sunshine and let’s go out, let’s go out for a walk. Let’s just get out and get the map out and go for it. And, and I think I know a lot people who’ve kind of rediscovered that which got lost in the buisiness of of life and if we could keep that when things start to go back to whatever the new normal is, I think we’d be we’d be a better civilization for sure.

 

Stefan Chmelik  32:51

Absolutely. And I’m very much hope I’m hopeful that that is what will happen a version of that. As I say, you can’t uninvent anything You can’t forget an experience you’ve had. And in many ways, that’s the problem with meditation like, deeper like relaxation, like activities. Most people have just never experienced the flow state the deep calm, that can be achieved for a lot of in a tremendous amount of hard work. And occasionally, you’ll get those moments where it’ll just clicks and the universe is in everything’s just right in the universe. But you know, once you’ve had that, then there’s no words that can explain to you what that feels like. It’s like a, it’s like a frog trying to tell a fish. What dried dry means is this. This does not within the, the lexicon of experience. So part of what we hope to do with sensei just to give people insights into some of these experiences, because once they’ve had them, then it’s Oh, right. Okay. That’s what I’m trying to do. And I’m hoping that the Lot of people will have had some kind of insights during and insights not necessarily into flow state, so into deep relaxation states, but into ways in which their life could be that’s different to how it was. And the on mass people will value that enough to not want to just revert to the previous what we call normal. That was anything but normal.

 

Matt Hatson  34:23

Yeah. Sounds Sounds Sounds great. Sounds fantastic. And I think it’s definitely had that impact and feedback I’ve, I’ve had on device going back to some some techie stuff, because you know, I’m a rabid techie geek. So I’m really interested in terms of as I said, earlier on, you know, the different different vibration patterns that elicit a different response in me. Tell me a bit more about you know, how how those came of come about, you know, the design and the intent behind the different frequencies and how you crowd with the the audio portion to hmm

 

Stefan Chmelik  35:04

Yes, it’s a really really important and fascinating question which we are still writing the book on literally a big part of the research that we’re doing and planning going forward is about why we’ve written the tracks the way that we have and why we’re using the specific frequencies that we are. A fairly common question from people is you know, what frequency is sensate? Or what frequency Do I need to use for this and because there is technology out there that will play specific frequencies that are related to particular cells and particular diseases etc. We very much armed working that way. So, since there is a multi frequency device that can play with with the headphones can play anywhere from about naught point one hertz up to 20,000 hertz. So isn’t all my entire entire human What beyond human hearing spectrum actually. But and there’s two processes going on at the same time there’s the compressed air auditory portion and which is how we hear sound, you know, air is compressed and this pushed into the eardrum, but then there’s a whole neurological mechanism around perception of touch, which is very different from kind of haptic feedback like you would get on a phone. But the the sense of vibration. And I think why this is important is because that was almost certainly our first ever sense. Yeah, before we had eyes and ears and noses, you know, we would have been rolling around in the bottom of the ocean, sensing our world vibe by vibration, for nothing is more hardwired into our system than the sense of vibration. And a baby developing in utero also experiences most of its world by vibration by bone conduction and fluid conduction. Through the mother. So these are really incredibly hardwired, hardwired senses. We use the tracks themselves. The sessions are multi multi frequency, they’re led resonance. We’ve developed what we call the sensate infrasound resonance technology. So it’s a it’s a way in which we conduct the the the low frequencies into the body through bone conduction. It’s a very different experience to in a hearing sound. And I’ve been I work on the tracks with a book with composers. And a lot of it is inspirational based. So we feel it we try it we have we know we know specific frequencies and combinations of frequencies and harmonics and resonances, which have a downregulated effect on the nervous system. And then other frequencies and combinations which have more of an up regulator effect. So we play with these. But we’re still to do some of the, the essential research around the precise frequencies and what to do like magnetic resonance imaging or to do heart rate variability measuring while going very methodically through a range of frequencies. So we can say precisely this frequency is doing that. Now, in reality, we probably won’t find that’s the case because, you know, having worked as the holistic physician for many decades, you know, what, what we in fact find is that human beings are very, very complex. And in fact, everything is multifactorial, which is why double blind research is so difficult with anything that has a holistic orientation because when you try to remove all the variables except for one, which of course in reality, you can never do but when you try to do that, you’re missing you’re you’re you’re throwing away the baby with the bathwater in many cases. So it will be the case with the sensate experience as well. It isn’t a frequency that’s doing something, it’s the combination of frequencies. It’s the combination of the oral air based set content along with the felt bone conduction content and the way that they can start to together.

 

Matt Hatson  39:19

Really, now that’s, that’s really interesting. So there’s no further research for that and that it sounds like that’s going to keep you keep you interested in geeked out as you delve into it further and further for some time.

 

Stefan Chmelik  39:34

We hear we have many years, I’m happy to say, research ahead of us. When when we’re not, you know, we’re pushing the curve here and nobody has used sound in the way that we’re using it really before. So people are very familiar with in with ultrasound, right. We know that ultrasound obviously can be used for imaging, it can be used for medical procedures. People are much less familiar with infrasound you know, the other end of the spectrum. And in fact mostly it’s it’s it’s only really, there’s only really been researched in terms of the negative impacts, you know, people like people using power drivers, etc, having low frequency vibrations going through them for hours at a time and that and the issues that can cause what we’re doing is quite different to that. And as I said, we don’t really, we don’t really stimulate the vagus nerve, we like to think that we increase vagal nerve tone, crap. And that’s a very homeostatic mechanism. Yeah. So by increasing the tone of the Vagus Vagus nerve, you increase its ability to respond to whatever is going on. So we focus the content of the moment is mostly first focused on increasing the Vagus Nerve downregulation. Because what we see is that most people are overstimulated, most people are anxious. They’re in a hyper vigilant state, so hard to sleep, hard to relax but Also the use case of and I think you mentioned this yourself when you’re trying to be more creative. So creating a memory cognition improvement, memory improvement, creativity, or getting over writer’s block if you like, this is more than kind of upregulates very high different brain functions to downregulation. And the good thing about increasing vagal nerve tone is that you do effectively work on both

 

Matt Hatson  41:23

Yeah. Yeah. Really, really interesting. So in terms of the the life cycle for their products, you’ve been amassed a whole bunch of pre orders for the on the latest Indiegogo campaign. How are you getting on with that, given all the challenges over the last few months?

 

Stefan Chmelik  41:42

Yeah, so we went live on Indiegogo. A little while ago were at over 1,000% over funded on that. So it’s done very, very well. Those orders are literally shipping now. So the first ones went out this week. We’re shipping those over the next few weeks. So So orders alive on an Go Go. If people just go to Indiegogo and then search sensate, they’ll find us. We’re taking orders live there shipping now. So anyone that places an order now we’ll get it probably in October. So not not not long, really. And then we’ll be selling from stock. So that’s, you know, that’s what we’ve been, we keep we keep up with keep the set, the interest has been so high over the last 10 1224 months that we’ve never managed to catch up with our pre orders. So hopefully, October this year, we’ll actually have caught up so that we can sell in if somebody orders and they’ll get a couple of days later.

 

Matt Hatson  42:33

Yeah, fantastic. Sounds like an ideal Christmas present for a lot of people.

 

Stefan Chmelik  42:37

Yeah, absolutely. And then we also may be the next the next hardware product as well as in development now. So that’ll be that’ll be launched next year as well.

 

Matt Hatson  42:50

Yeah, fantastic. So, yeah, that’s great. I think. I think we’ve got a really good understanding of where it’s coming from, and I say I’ve been using it for chemistry about six months now. And I think it’s a really, really timely product really effective products can help a lot of people. And if it can help people get out of those stuck states and start to recognise that maybe there’s a better way, then that’s a couldn’t be more timely really, though. Yeah, it seems to work pretty well for you.

 

Stefan Chmelik  43:25

Yeah, I mean, we’ve actually been accused of rushing sensate outs to capitalise on the end of the stress and the anxious. And I have to point out to people that actually we’ve been doing this since 2015. And a lot of time and money and energy has gone into developing of it and a lot of careful testing. But I mean, I think I think in one shape or form, the crisis that we’ve seen happening was in a long time coming. And in a sense, all it’s done is to kind of rip off the the the sticking plasters that have been holding a lot of very shaky structures to Which is very painful, but actually means that we can now identify and address these issues effectively,

 

Matt Hatson  44:06

I hope. No. Yeah, absolutely. And for those who haven’t yet got a device, or they’re waiting for their pre order, in the current climate, given all your expertise in other areas, what would you What do you recommend they do while they’re waiting for your, for you to catch up with their order.

 

Stefan Chmelik  44:24

And what I always say is, even if in doubt, breathe out. And I suppose if there’s one thing that we’ve observed in clinic overall is that breathing is something which we all do. And we all know how to do what these things we do, but because we can exert voluntary control over it in a way that we can’t easily with the heartbeat or digestion, we do. So any trauma or stress or anxiety tends to lead to breath holding. So if there’s one piece of advice, it’s don’t hold your breath and Breathe out more than you breathe in. And don’t pay too much attention to your breathing because that can actually trigger anxiety. But notice if you’re holding your breath, and if you are just drop your shoulders and just just breathe out.

 

Matt Hatson  45:21

Brilliant advice, and something everybody can can apply straightaway. That’s fantastic. Well, Stefan, this has been fantastic. Thanks very much for your time. So the devices now if, for those viewers who haven’t ordered the app, please search on Indiegogo. And you can find it and learn more about how it works and when it’s available. I’m incredibly grateful for your support. We’re an impact company, we’re looking to have a global impact like you say so it’s so important to us that people who have tried the device and in it are supportive. I’m very grateful. That’s great. Thanks, Stefan Fantastic.

 

Stefan Chmelik  46:06

Thanks so much.